but an election happened. president obama has the first democrat in 75 years to win and said $250,000 was his bar. the elections have consequences. so that's a legitimate place to be. everybody that got elected to the house of representatives just got elected, too. and they have a no new tax pledge. you are at logger heads here. i think there is a sweet spot where nobody wants to be the person to raise the taxes that we just talked about and have a big bill come across your table in january. >> i think really the problem is spending. we've spending problem in our country. look at our debt. our debt is over $16 trillion. our government is spending way too much money. we need to cut back on spending, cut -- >> arthel: where? >> look at the entitlement programs, for example. there's a lot of waste, fraud, and abuse going on there. that is not even on the table. and so listen, we can cut our expenses in our country that is spleeningful and very important for us to do because right now, they're just kicking the can